Jump to content

Welcome to ExtremeHW

Welcome to ExtremeHW, you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple FREE process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of ExtremeHW creating an account. 

 

Registered users can: 

  • Start new topics and reply to others.
  • Show off your PC using our Rig Creator feature.
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get updates.
  • Get your own profile page to customize.
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Take advantage of site exclusive features.
  • Upgrade to Premium to unlock additional sites features.
IGNORED

Contentment - is it what the PC industry hates ?


J7SC_Orion
 Share

Recommended Posts

Perhaps it is a bit of an odd post, but in a week when I slurped up 12900KS and 5800X3D reviews, with an extra sprinkling of 3090 Ti and rumours of the 6950XT, I realized that I do not long for any of those things whatsoever. Granted, the listed items are mostly refreshes and variations on existing offerings I already have - and who knows, Raptor Lake, Zen 4, RTX4K and RDNA3 may yet peek my interest. But for now, I'm blissfully happy re. the systems in my home-office for work and play, and the industry might be unhappy if there are too many of me in that 'zone'...

 

To explain, we had some weird, for-us-rare thunderstorm weather over the last week - ideal 'flying' weather for my FS2020 FlightSim set to 'real weather and air traffic'...it is kind of strange to see the actual weather raging outside on one's screen, ditto for air liners in the 'real sky' while also seeing them on the screen (said airliners and passengers may not have enjoyed the weather as much as I did...). Anyway, it was close to two hours of FS2020 at 4K ultra, and as I had HWinfo minimized in the system tray, I checked afterwards re. MHz and temps...turned out the 5950X had hit an effective clock of 5040MHz on several cores (FS2020 only uses a few) while the 3090 Strix was around 2205 MHz with a peak temp of 38 C for the GPU. The GPU wasn't even maxed (see insert below), but still delivered consistent, high fps...The systems have extensive water-cooling and that helps a lot not only on speed but re. lack of noise and heat-soaking, especially with the latest crop of CPUs and GPUs with boost algorithms that use temp as a major determinant...so that is one conclusion: Max out what you got first, rather than just always upgrade to the latest and greatest.

 

...Certainly, a new 5800X3D or 12900KS with a shiny new 3090 Ti or 6950XT may (or may not) be faster, but it really is about the apps I run at the end of the day...that, plus the visual experience. Per below (lower right screen), I invested in a LG C1 48 OLED just shy of a year ago, and it has done more for my enjoyment than any other upgrade in recent memory. The visual quality is off the scale, the response rate is near-perfect, the pixel pitch tight and it transforms games such as FS2020, Cyberpunk 2077, ForzaH5 et al into a completely different experience. I sit about two feet away from that C1 monitor in a room w/o direct lighting which is just about perfect, never mind the audio quality that thing emits. Sometimes, I get up at night and just watch 8K/4K HDR YouTube aerial vids - it really feels like you're floating above the various cities, mountains, valleys and oceans. So that is another conclusion: The enjoyment of the latest hardware is only as good as the weakest link in the chain, especially the one which is the direct major interface between 'human and machine'.

 

All I really want from my current setups and all the extra cooling I built in is to power the visuals to the max while being whisper-quiet, for hours on end (beyond the daily productivity uses). In prior years, when upgrading a CPU/GPU combo, the benchies would show the new-found speed, but watching it all on the same older 'trusty' monitor as before sometimes raised the question what the upgrade investment was really worth.

 

So it is nice to read all the reviews about the latest 'must haves', but especially in the times we live in, it is equally nice to be content, even if the industry doesn't like to hear that term.

 

Speaking of contentment, Happy Easter to you all.

 

workcornerD2.thumb.jpg.368eff727866877c91dddf0f8a009cac.jpg

 

 

Edited by J7SC_Orion
  • Respect 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every time I see 1 of these new items being released, I think,"Oooh,maybe It's time to finally upgrade." But then I realize I'm still able to play the games I play quite well on my current set up. ryzen 7 2700x, 16Gb ddr4 ram,RTX 2070(non super). Maybe if I was playing flight sim or another demanding game like that I could see the need to upgrade, but I'll wait for the next socket /ram  combo before I give it much thought,by then the gpu's may even be more available near MSRP.🙂

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you were playing counter strike competitively or something like that, the best hardware would probably be more meaningful, especially on the CPU side, but for the more mainstream games lately there isn't much beyond having a top tier GPU. Unless you play at low res, all the newer and more interesting games will be GPU limited all the time, and with ray tracing still being so early the difference between a GPU that can run CP2077 at max with DLSS and get 40 FPS vs one that can get 45 for $500 more is just not compelling for anyone who doesn't hate money. 

 

On top of that we're still waiting for next gen to kick in. We don't have UE5 games yet, or games from other devs that are on par with what UE5 looks to deliver. Ray tracing is still only 2 generations in, and only one for AMD. I suspect in another GPU generation or two when ray tracing performance gets a lot better, we'll start seeing some stuff on PC that will make an upgrade be more interesting again. Until then it feels like we're still waiting for something interesting to come along. We have some PS4 era type games that got ray tracing slapped on for new gen hardware but really there is still yet to be a single game that is truly next gen yet, except maybe MSFS2020... and even that game is a long way from where it is supposed to eventually end up. Eventually that game is supposed to have ray tracing as well but considering how demanding it is already, I suspect they're going to wait until hardware is a lot more capable before adding RT into the game. 

 

I think we're probably still a year away at least from something really interesting happening in the PC gaming world. Before then, we'll have new hardware come out that will boost RT performance quite a bit but that will probably just amount to higher res for now, less need for AI upscaling, so it probably won't really amount to any interesting new visual features. I somewhat suspect Rockstar is sitting on a mostly ready to ship version of GTA6 but they're waiting for next gen console sales to saturate the market more. Chip shortages have certainly played a role in that and devs are still releasing all their games for older consoles. I think around the time GTA6 comes out, it will mark a time when things finally start to shift and really break away from last gen so we can start to see something new and exciting. 

  • Thanks 1
  • Respect 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, schuck6566 said:

Every time I see 1 of these new items being released, I think,"Oooh,maybe It's time to finally upgrade." But then I realize I'm still able to play the games I play quite well on my current set up. ryzen 7 2700x, 16Gb ddr4 ram,RTX 2070(non super). Maybe if I was playing flight sim or another demanding game like that I could see the need to upgrade, but I'll wait for the next socket /ram  combo before I give it much thought,by then the gpu's may even be more available near MSRP.🙂

 

...with your 2700X in an AM4 socket, you do have some fairly painless upgrade options, if needed !

 

I typically upgrade any one of three sets of systems which make up my home-office setup every two to three years. This cycle, with 'Raven_A' which is a dual system in a single 'case', I needed to upgrade scope as well, meaning adding additional work capacity and oomph. That in turn meant 4K monitors which led to the need for GPUs that can drive those not only for computing-related work, but also play at decent fps. Fortunately, I got the 3090 and 6900XT at earlier MSRP (and no tariff) before it all went completely bonkers. I see zero-need to upgrade the GPUs (ie 3090 > 3090 Ti) now.

 

Speaking of prices gone bonkers, while GPU prices are coming back down, I was shocked when I browsed Amazon and other specialty retailers for the type of water-cooling setup I built for Raven_A - some of it isn't available at all, or has a really long ETA, and overall, prices seem to be up by 30% or so compared to even 10 months ago. I'm glad I finished those loops (combined 2520x 63mm, 5x D5s, 50x 120mm fans for push/pull) before all this craziness which is forecast to get worse on the peripheral side (re. China issues) in the near future...

 

4 hours ago, Sir Beregond said:

Well it was definitely time for me to retire my 4790k/GTX 980 system, but I suspect I'll be content with my 5900X/3080 Ti system for years to come.

 

I still have GTX 980s in an older setup and really like them, but yeah, your 5900X / 3080 Ti should have some staying power. If you have a decent monitor to pair those with, you're all set for years.

 

2 hours ago, UltraMega said:

If you were playing counter strike competitively or something like that, the best hardware would probably be more meaningful, especially on the CPU side, but for the more mainstream games lately there isn't much beyond having a top tier GPU. Unless you play at low res, all the newer and more interesting games will be GPU limited all the time, and with ray tracing still being so early the difference between a GPU that can run CP2077 at max with DLSS and get 40 FPS vs one that can get 45 for $500 more is just not compelling for anyone who doesn't hate money. 

 

On top of that we're still waiting for next gen to kick in. We don't have UE5 games yet, or games from other devs that are on par with what UE5 looks to deliver. Ray tracing is still only 2 generations in, and only one for AMD. I suspect in another GPU generation or two when ray tracing performance gets a lot better, we'll start seeing some stuff on PC that will make an upgrade be more interesting again. Until then it feels like we're still waiting for something interesting to come along. We have some PS4 era type games that got ray tracing slapped on for new gen hardware but really there is still yet to be a single game that is truly next gen yet, except maybe MSFS2020... and even that game is a long way from where it is supposed to eventually end up. Eventually that game is supposed to have ray tracing as well but considering how demanding it is already, I suspect they're going to wait until hardware is a lot more capable before adding RT into the game. 

 

I think we're probably still a year away at least from something really interesting happening in the PC gaming world. Before then, we'll have new hardware come out that will boost RT performance quite a bit but that will probably just amount to higher res for now, less need for AI upscaling, so it probably won't really amount to any interesting new visual features. I somewhat suspect Rockstar is sitting on a mostly ready to ship version of GTA6 but they're waiting for next gen console sales to saturate the market more. Chip shortages have certainly played a role in that and devs are still releasing all their games for older consoles. I think around the time GTA6 comes out, it will mark a time when things finally start to shift and really break away from last gen so we can start to see something new and exciting. 

 

...FS2020 is 'less than optimized' but slowly getting better (and so it should be with all those multi-GB patches !). But for all its flaws, it is my fav, along with free-roaming in Cyberpunk 2077. CP2077 seems to have the best ray-tracing 'impact', rather than just a label stuck on after the fact. Ride 4 is also a blast, and I don't mind Forza Horizon 5, though for me, FH5 is 'second-tier' in the fun department.

Edited by J7SC_Orion
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice thing is,I got the x470 when I bought this to build and it supports pci-e4.0,and even the 5th gen of Ryzen's so the choices will be open when I need to upgrade. Not much into the competitive online games,latest 1 I bought was Horizon zero dawn and I'm doing mid 40's to low 60's fps game play in 4k settings as shown in screen shots. 🙂 I'm sure I could teak them to get above 60 most/all the time,but it's not effecting gameplay 4 me so I'm happy with the look. 🙂

Screenshot_628.jpg

Screenshot_629.jpg

  • Respect 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Premium Platinum
335 462

Re. Amazon pricing, they're also going to start adding a 5% “fuel and inflation” surcharge to seller fees for Prime shipping. I'll give you one guess who will likely end up paying for that:

 

ARSTechnica: Amazon adds 5% “fuel and inflation” surcharge to seller fees for Prime shipping

 

Anyway, I don't personally know whether the PC Industry hates contentment, but I'd bet they sure don't like apathy on the part of the consumer. Now it's back to my regularly scheduled activities (it is that time of year after all).

 

 

Spoiler

2022-04-17_11-47-49.thumb.jpg.5753aeddd9c9aa976f6e19c0375a685d.jpg

 

Edited by iamjanco
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, iamjanco said:

Re. Amazon pricing, they're also going to start adding a 5% “fuel and inflation” surcharge to seller fees for Prime shipping. I'll give you one guess who will likely end up paying for that:

 

ARSTechnica: Amazon adds 5% “fuel and inflation” surcharge to seller fees for Prime shipping

 

Anyway, I don't personally know whether the PC Industry hates contentment, but I'd bet they sure don't like apathy on the part of the consumer. Now it's back to my regularly scheduled activities (it is that time of year after all).

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

2022-04-17_11-47-49.thumb.jpg.5753aeddd9c9aa976f6e19c0375a685d.jpg

 

Origin of the Easter Bunny....

 

  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, schuck6566 said:

Nice thing is,I got the x470 when I bought this to build and it supports pci-e4.0,and even the 5th gen of Ryzen's so the choices will be open when I need to upgrade. Not much into the competitive online games,latest 1 I bought was Horizon zero dawn and I'm doing mid 40's to low 60's fps game play in 4k settings as shown in screen shots. 🙂 I'm sure I could teak them to get above 60 most/all the time,but it's not effecting gameplay 4 me so I'm happy with the look. 🙂

Screenshot_628.jpg

Screenshot_629.jpg

 

...being happy with the look and performance re. your current setup is in part what the original post was all about.  Still, with your X470/PCIe 4.0, it is nice to know that you have some great upgrade options w/o breaking the bank, ie. the 5800X3D (see spoiler re. 40 game comp with 12900K Alder Lake). Because of the work-play nature (including compiling, rendering, encryption etc) of my setups, I prefer the 16 core / 32 thread CPUs, but for pure gaming upgrades, a 5800X3D or even 5900X gives you a great path. GPU-wise, waiting to see what the late-fall releases bring by NVidia and/or AMD makes sense, even if just for price drops on current gens.  

Spoiler

 

 

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im content with my system. Back in the day, I used to get the upgrade bug...BAD. But these days I much prefer to get a decent system that matures and I tweak it to the best I can get and that will usually do me nicely for a good while. 

 

Gone are the days living on the bleeding edge. It's too expensive, has a tonne of teething issues and usually a side-grade to what I already have.

  • Respect 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think once I finish my new rig, AMDwheee, I'll be more than happy for a long while.  Only reason I'm upgrading is because my monitor, it just demands high performance.  Had I not bought a 5120x1440 / 120Hz panel, I'd have been more than fine with my measely Ryzen 3600 / RX 580 I had originally (because my 3770k died).

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ENTERPRISE said:

Im content with my system. Back in the day, I used to get the upgrade bug...BAD. But these days I much prefer to get a decent system that matures and I tweak it to the best I can get and that will usually do me nicely for a good while. 

 

Gone are the days living on the bleeding edge. It's too expensive, has a tonne of teething issues and usually a side-grade to what I already have.

 

...used to be much more on the bleeding edge when I was very active in HWBot; expensive not only in dollars even with vendor support, but also in time resources, bleeding edge / guinea pig tax re. new chipsets, beta bios and drivers...

 

spacer.png

 

1 hour ago, pioneerisloud said:

I think once I finish my new rig, AMDwheee, I'll be more than happy for a long while.  Only reason I'm upgrading is because my monitor, it just demands high performance.  Had I not bought a 5120x1440 / 120Hz panel, I'd have been more than fine with my measely Ryzen 3600 / RX 580 I had originally (because my 3770k died).

 

...per earlier comment, having switched everything to 4K top-end monitors automatically meant high-powered GPUs. But no reason to go beyond that, and hope to run these setups for many years.

 

Still, worth keeping an eye on PC-related supply chains not only re. Russia / Ukraine, but also re. Shanghai Covid impacts on largest container port in the world. Same applies to non-PC items...

  • Thanks 1
  • Respect 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, J7SC_Orion said:

 

...used to be much more on the bleeding edge when I was very active in HWBot; expensive not only in dollars even with vendor support, but also in time resources, bleeding edge / guinea pig tax re. new chipsets, beta bios and drivers...

 

spacer.png

 

 

...per earlier comment, having switched everything to 4K top-end monitors automatically meant high-powered GPUs. But no reason to go beyond that, and hope to run these setups for many years.

 

Still, worth keeping an eye on PC-related supply chains not only re. Russia / Ukraine, but also re. Shanghai Covid impacts on largest container port in the world. Same applies to non-PC items...

I agree, time was a massive cost. Way back when it was annoying, these days I do not actually have the time to tinker endlessly to get something to work....that should be working. Now, if it SAVES me time, I would rather throw money at that solution, whatever it may be. Funny how my times these days is more valuable than money. Part of getting older I suppose.

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice read @J7SC_Orion, sometimes it's good to reflect and be content with what we have which for most of us is a lot of high end hardware. 

 

I received a notification for an EVGA 3090Ti FTW3 Ultra the other day, but after taking a good look at the price with tax and shipping it wasn't hard to decline the offer. Part of me was sad because I love to own the best of the best but on the other hand it was too much money for something I don't even need. A CPU for 10% of the money is worth a lot more points on hwbot 😛

 

18 hours ago, ENTERPRISE said:

Im content with my system. Back in the day, I used to get the upgrade bug...BAD. But these days I much prefer to get a decent system that matures and I tweak it to the best I can get and that will usually do me nicely for a good while. 

 

Gone are the days living on the bleeding edge. It's too expensive, has a tonne of teething issues and usually a side-grade to what I already have.

If it wouldn't be for hwbot and what I've been doing for [email protected] I would be happy with my 5800x and a 3090, the 12900KF system hasn't been used as a main system at all and all the other hardware is mainly for folding or benchmarking.
I had a conversation with @Avacado about what I invested in hardware for hwbot, and the only real expensive thing was the 12900KF system. Besides that it's the cheap old hardware like a 6870 or a few GT210 cards which gives me way more joy than an expensive 3090 or possible Ti...

 

16 hours ago, J7SC_Orion said:

...used to be much more on the bleeding edge when I was very active in HWBot; expensive not only in dollars even with vendor support, but also in time resources, bleeding edge / guinea pig tax re. new chipsets, beta bios and drivers...

It for sure takes up a lot of your time if you want to be high up the ranks, even in the enthusiast league. I can't begin to imagine what it would take to battle for first in the extreme or elite leagues. 

 

9 hours ago, ENTERPRISE said:

I agree, time was a massive cost. Way back when it was annoying, these days I do not actually have the time to tinker endlessly to get something to work....that should be working. Now, if it SAVES me time, I would rather throw money at that solution, whatever it may be. Funny how my times these days is more valuable than money. Part of getting older I suppose.

It depends, but usually I prefer spending a bit more money and less time and most of it has got to do with getting older, and I'm only in my 30's 😂

  • Thanks 2
  • Respect 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
On 18/04/2022 at 00:19, ENTERPRISE said:

I agree, time was a massive cost. Way back when it was annoying, these days I do not actually have the time to tinker endlessly to get something to work....that should be working. Now, if it SAVES me time, I would rather throw money at that solution, whatever it may be. Funny how my times these days is more valuable than money. Part of getting older I suppose.

 

...there's an additional aspect coming into play these days that affects 'time spent' on tuning: As mentioned before, the latest crop of CPUs and GPUs are already much more 'binned & maxed' via boost algorithms (reminiscent of 'extracting the consumers' surplus in economics). There are still some other steps one can take, but basically, top-of-the-line RAM and a very extensive cooling system gets you 97% there - the remaining 3% are pure extra time and frustration 😩.

 

On 18/04/2022 at 09:42, Bastiaan_NL said:

Nice read @J7SC_Orion, sometimes it's good to reflect and be content with what we have which for most of us is a lot of high end hardware. 

 

I received a notification for an EVGA 3090Ti FTW3 Ultra the other day, but after taking a good look at the price with tax and shipping it wasn't hard to decline the offer. Part of me was sad because I love to own the best of the best but on the other hand it was too much money for something I don't even need. A CPU for 10% of the money is worth a lot more points on hwbot 😛

 

If it wouldn't be for hwbot and what I've been doing for [email protected] I would be happy with my 5800x and a 3090, the 12900KF system hasn't been used as a main system at all and all the other hardware is mainly for folding or benchmarking.
I had a conversation with @Avacado about what I invested in hardware for hwbot, and the only real expensive thing was the 12900KF system. Besides that it's the cheap old hardware like a 6870 or a few GT210 cards which gives me way more joy than an expensive 3090 or possible Ti...

 

It for sure takes up a lot of your time if you want to be high up the ranks, even in the enthusiast league. I can't begin to imagine what it would take to battle for first in the extreme or elite leagues. 

 

It depends, but usually I prefer spending a bit more money and less time and most of it has got to do with getting older, and I'm only in my 30's 😂

 

Thanks Bastiaan. Re. the EVGA 3090Ti FTW3 Ultra notification you received, since you already own 2x 3090 FTWs, I wouldn't bother, either. Besides, RTX4k (Ada Lovelace?) is already being tested out by vendors...turns out that the 3090 Ti PCBs are apparently pin-compatible...

 

Re. HWBot and Elite league, HWBot is something a serious overclocker probably should do at least for a little while, though it is also a bit of a slippery slope re. time and equipment-purchase wise towards different cooling classes. Still, I am very glad I did HWBot and achieved many (though not all) my goals in the Elite league back in the day...

 

But there's also a darker side to this, apart from time and $s - whether a retail purchase of a shiny new mobo, or a vendor-sponsored (usually white or grey) plain box with only an anti-static bag and a printed reminder of the NDA if received before initial release), it always felt so wrong🤢 to take one of these shiny new mobos and prep them right-a-way for sub-zero after a quick test on regular test-bench. That meant taking gobs of Vaseline and (very carefully) putting it into the CPU socket, followed by a heat-gun application so that it would flow into the nooks and crannies, while making sure not to negatively impact any one of the 2000+ little gold arms in the socket.

 

Then more gobs of black LET (liquid electrical tape) all around the top and PCIe slots, some art eraser squeezed around the socket, blue shop towels rolled up and squeezed everywhere, finally followed by cutting out the neoprene sheets (I bought a lot of those at a dive shop, btw). Anyway, by the time the new mobo was prepped, it looked hideously ugly, and just like the previous hideous-looking gens.

 

After all that mess, you got to wrestle with early beta bios, some of which could blow up the CPU while in bios (no kidding)...good thing they also supplied retail and/or ES CPUs....nothing of this was like the new ownership experience for a new build, with the joys of anticipation and planning a custom loop in a nice new case etc..

 

Edited by J7SC_Orion
  • Respect 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

...Good thing I've finished my primary builds and get to enjoy them now as I caught a nasty (regular) flu bug that makes it difficult to sleep...so I had a few more nights of watching YouTube (below) after sneaking into my home office at 3 am so not to wake anybody else.

 

Before I turn to some YT samples you might want to try out, it is also worth adding to the general theme of the thread that hardware contentment isn't just about getting the most out of one's hardware in the big ticket categories (CPU, GPU, TV/Monitors), but also other parts that make up one's daily computing experience. Between Raven_A and Raven_B (two 'cases', each with two mobos), I can use up to 14Tb of all-electronic storage (PCIe4 NVMEs, SSDs). Internally, the Ravens are connected via 2.5 Gb/s networking, while externally, it's 1 Gb/s up and down.  In general, adding fast networking and fast drives to other even older equipment (such as X79 and X99) also rejuvenates them for a few more years of non-demanding service, such as file storage and regular office work, email and browsing. Good riddance to spinning hard drives in the setups I work on, at least...

 

Now to the visuals. Obviously, there are some demanding eye-candy games (CP 2077, FS2020 and Ride 4, I'm looking at you), but you don't actually need a 3090 or 6900XT to enjoy 4K HDR, HLG, Dolby Atmos and Dolby Vision on YouTube - just a TV/monitor that can support those, along with a speedy-enough connection.

 

Not every latest techno tag is actually worth it, IMO, but watching some of this on the latest-gen tv/monitors is quite an experience for the eyes and ears.

 

 

 

 

 

Finally, just a quick shot of another FS2020 'flu flight'...I can actually 'see' the very room I'm in as I fly over it 'digitally' 😀

 

Screenshot (497).png

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

This Website may place and access certain Cookies on your computer. ExtremeHW uses Cookies to improve your experience of using the Website and to improve our range of products and services. ExtremeHW has carefully chosen these Cookies and has taken steps to ensure that your privacy is protected and respected at all times. All Cookies used by this Website are used in accordance with current UK and EU Cookie Law. For more information please see our Privacy Policy